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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:50:34 -0500
From: rotary@mediaone.net (Carlos Iglesias)
I may not be an elephant but my memory isn't that bad! ;-)
>> 1. Where's the fuel regulator vac hose located?
Don't bother. Just buy a vacuum T, and plumb the smaller diameter hose off of either of the nipples on the upper intake manifold. These nipples are where the stock blowoff valve and where most people connect their boost gauge to.
>> 2. Where did you mount your control box?(stepping motor?)
The manual says to mount it somewhere relatively cool, so I mounted it just in front of the cooling fan relays rack which is inside my cool air induction "space". If you'd like, I can scan a picture and send it.
>> 3. Where do the other two hoses on the control box go?
I'll call the nipple on the Profec, "Y", "E" and "G" after the letters of GReddy logo on the stepper motor which the nipples are in-line with.
The stepper motor's "E" nipple receives boost pressure from the nipple off of the primary (front) turbo's compressor outlet (the front part of the turbo "Y" pipe). What you need to do is remove the short line that's between the front turbo outlet nipple and one of the two wastegate (WG) nipples. The short hose that you need to remove is the one that contains the "wastegate orifice/pill." Connect the hose from nipple "E" (the center large diameter nipple) to front turbo's outlet nipple.
You can now remove the line that goes to the other WG actuator nipple. Put a vacuum cap in the line you just removed to keep the vacuum system from getting contaminated. Now vacuum cap off and zip cinch (or SECURELY seal off) either ONE of the two WG nipples on the actuator which you're not going to use.
The "G" nipple on the Profec gets connected to the left over WG nipple, and provide the actuating pressure to open the WG.
In summary here's how it works:
>> 4. Any other tips?
Make sure to securely zip-tie or secure all of the associated nipple and hoses. Unfortunately, if the system's pressure integrity is broken, the wastegate will not open. Long story short, the system "Fail-safes" to BUY-A-NEW-ENGINE.
Along the same line, start to program the system as if the WG ISN'T going to operate properly. By that, I mean expect the worst, just incase. After trying it out a few time, then build confidence in it. Being too aggressive off the bat, might buy you some really great performance for a few seconds, followed by a very expensive post climax.
GReddy has a great programming info page.
I've always been able to program the Profec on the first or second try while in 4th gear. In 3rd gear, it's not as easy to program. Of course, running through 7500 rpms in 4th gear can make for some really interesting highway driving. Kids, please don't try this at home ;-).
__________________
From: "Jason" PRofec B installation:
Hope this helps. Any questions email me at jason1@infinet.com.
________________
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 05:09:56 PST You may want to add to step 2 and disconnect factory bleeder solenoid
hose from the second nipple on the wastegate actuator. Plug this nipple
on the actuator.
Also add that you need do nothing to the pre-control actuator. Many
people have y'd the profec to both the pre-control and wastegate, not
good.
_________________
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:01:15 -0400 I have it going from the actuator to the IN on the Profec and then from the
OUT on the Profec to the Wastegate. Also I have capped the other side of
that wastegate which allows the ECU to control boost. With this setup and
the profec OFF you should get about 7psi of boost. Using the Sharp/Mild
Button, that will allow you to control how fast boost comes on. Farther to
the SHARP side and the quicker the response, but the less stable the boost
is. More to the Mild and slower the response but more stable boost. I leave
mine a few clicks off Sharp, which seems to work well for me.
________________
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:02:49 -1000 (HST) Ahaa! The great wastegate//pre-control actuator debate springs to life yet
again...
I continue to posit that the only way to get big boost (ie 14/15 lbs) out of
both primary and twin turbos operation with a Profec B is by regulating both
the "Wastegate" and the Pre-control Actuators. If you just run the
controller to the wastegate actuator, you will end up with moderate boost on
the first turbo (10 lbs sustained if your lucky, depending on back
pressure), perfect transition prespool, moderate boost spike and your
expected big boost only after the second turbo comes on line.
If you run the Profec to both actuators, you will get near instant big boost
on the primary turbo on demand at any rpm above 2,500, but will experience a
more violent transition and perhaps higher spiking when the second turbo
activates.
The Pre-control Actuator regulates primary turbo boost until about 4000 rpm
(if you don't believe me try adjusting your pre-controller actuator rod).
The amount of boost generated by the primary turbo is regulated by whatever
signal is sent to the Turbo Pre-control Solenoid by either the ECU or your
controller of choice. It has been said on this list that the pre-control
actuator (PCA) is simply a device which opens at a preset rpm to spool the
second turbo. This is not all it does. The PCA is in fact regulating boost
the entire time up till near the transition point, and though it does indeed
accomplish this regulation via venting excess exhaust energy to the
secondary turbo to prespool it, saying that is all it does is not giving it
full credit. Keep in mind that during this time, the Wastegate Actuator is
functionally inoperative- all boost generated by the secondary turbo is
being routed not to the intake tract but to the atmosphere via the Charge
Relief Valve during this period. Simply put, there is no way that the
Wastegate Actuator is regulating boost to the primary turbo before twin
turbo operation, all boost is being regulated by the PCA. At the point of
full twin turbo operation the PCA is switched fully open and all boost is
then managed by the Wastegate Actuator.
Based upon all the above, I continue to believe that if you want to run
higher than "stock" (which depends on back pressure) boost on your primary
turbo you need to have your Profec control the PCA and that you cannot do
this by tapping into only the "wastegate" side of the system.
Hopefully, Brooks was actually asking this question. If not, well, let the
debate rage once again anyway.
________________
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:43:57 -0400 From: Richard H Thomaso@lava.net: Not true. Both the WG and PCA control primary only mode. Changing either of
these pills effects the max primary boost. Just been thru this with a new
total 3" exhaust. After various pill sizes, I left the PCA pill close to
stock, and opened the WG pill from .063 to about .086 inch, to maintain
stock boost. You can actually see a little boost drop at 3000 rpm as the PCA
goes from just cracked open to substancially open, due to the sol valve's
reduced venting at 3000 rpm.
I quickly learned that PCA pill changes had a big (not exclusive) effect on
the primary boost and spiking, and was best left close to stock. I believe
Mazda sized this control for prespool only, and used the WG vent maps that
are more open in primary mode to compensate for the 'wg' effect it has on
primary boost. The precontrol pill size DOES have more effect on primary
boost then the WG pill, but I feel it's a very tricky way to adjust primary
boost, due to increased primary overshoot/spiking.
Profec B........since you can't trim it for primary and twin modes
separately, seems like you could get the remote switch, and use a relay off
the turbo control solenoid wiring to switch from hi to lo settings. You
could then have different boost levels, if you prefer it, for single and
twin modes.
The precontrol 'WG effect' does tend to reduce primary boost a bit with
normal Profec installations. Leaving the stock sol-valve vent system
connected, and not plugged, would keep primary boost up, but may have more
overshoot than desired. Anyone try this?
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Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:22:53 -1000 (HST) Example: If you send via either an electronic controller of via a modded ECU
a signal to the duty solenoid valve a signal that says to permit 6 psi to
vent through the duty valve you would need at least 13 psi of turbo boost to
compress the 7 lb spring. So, if you are only boosting 11 lbs on the primary
turbo, with stock pills, the "wastegate" would never open till swichover.
This is what I mean by "inoperative." Changing the pill size will alter this
relationship as will changing the duty signal. Now, I understand it to be
that on the stock car (with stock pills of course) the signal sent to the
duty solenoid until about 4k rpm is 95%, which means that the duty valve can
and will vent as much as 8 psi. This means that the primary turbo would need
to be boosting at least 15 lbs before the wastegate spring would start to
open. If I am incorrect about the duty % on a stock car and it is at any
time lower during this rpm period then perhaps the WG is becoming
operational a bit here and there and you are correct. I will not defend the
95% duty figure with my life since I have never personaly tried to verify it.
If I am wrong then kudos to Kevin for adding to list wisdom. Kevin, you
did say that you spent some time checking the signal. What did you find with
stock and modded pills?
Any way. Even if I am wrong on this issue (sob, snif), my original point was
to "defend" the functions of the Pre-control Actuator. No matter who is
correct on the issue of whether the WG does anything at all up till 4k or
so, the PCA clearly plays a major role in regulating boost on the primary
turbo, thus I continue to believe that the PCA must be dealt with if you
intend to coax your primary turbo into actually generating a sustained, semi
reliable plus 14/15 lbs of boost. Clearly, you can do this by fiddlin with
the pills with an ECU with removed boost limits. I managed to get 16/16 lbs
then 15/15 lbs of sustained boost this way but the boost was erratic and
prone to fluctuate greatly depending on weather conditions (heck, my car ran
high 11s this way). If you try this with a stock ECU, all you get is a big
boost spike which subsides in higher gears. If you hook up a boost
controller to modify the duty signal you can modulate when the WG opens, but
even if you tell it to stay closed 'till 15 lbs of boost is present, you
still want to regulate the PCA somehow to keep it from switching to far open
'till you want it to in order to allow that much boost to even reach the WGA
during primary turbo operation.
It's sure good to get a healthy debate about this, "mumbo, jumbo" or not.
Anyway, to those who asked, I've double checked and it was just a simple to
hook up the Profec B to regulate both the PCA and WGA as I remembered. All I
did was hook up the controller side of the Profec to both actuators via a T
connection, then plug the other nipples on each actuator. This is precisely
what some have said NOT to do, but my car was most happy this way with near
instant sustained 14.5 lbs boost on primary and twin turbo operation. The
downside was a boost spike on transition. No one has posted to me claiming
they got this much sustained boost on both single and twin operation via
hooking up only to the WGA. You either get less on primary and 14.5 twin, or
you get 14.5 primary and too much twin. I would love it if some others would
give this a test to nail down the issue once and for all, but only do it if
you give a hoot about running this much boost.
________________
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:24:45 -0500 Dip switches... Looking at the unit .. Set the balance at 4 o'clock, the low at 2 o'clock,
and the high at 10 o'clock. You can tune from there to get the boost you
want. This works great on my car and Kyle Krutilek's. I have to credit Kyle
with beta testing these settings, BTW.
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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:10:48 -0500
From: "kyle krutilek"
From: "Roadrunner" (jbaughma@columbus.rr.com)
>I am wondering what kind of installation variations you all have on your
>3rd gen with a Profec B installed.....
>
>I am currently taking out the small 3" hose (contains the pill) that goes
>from the turbo to the wastegate..... and putting the profec B inline
>there.... I am also taking off the bottom line of the wastegate and
>capping both ends....
>
>I am noticing that boost seems to come on much slower than the manual
>bleed valve I had hooked up....
>
>Is this the only way to do it?? what happends if you don't remove the
>bottom line off the wastegate?
From: richardt@lava.net (Richard H Thomason)
From: "kevin kelleher" (kellehkj@earthlink.net)
>Simply put, there is no way that the Wastegate
>Actuator is regulating boost to the primary turbo
>before twin turbo operation, all boost is being
>regulated by the PCA
From: richardt@lava.net (Richard H Thomason)
>The function of the solenoid valve venting
>pressure built up in the actuator diaphram
>chamber of the WGA during primary turbo
>operation is specifically to keep the WGA
>spring non operational on a stock car.
From: brad barber (bradrx7@swbell.net)
> Does anyone know which Dip Switch setting is best on a Profec B
> to minimize spiking? Also, where are most people setting the Balance
> knob? Mine boost seems to "bounce" if I raise the balance much above
> Mild, although I thought that the Sharp setting would make reduce lag and
> hold more steady??
1 ON
2 OFF
3 ON
4 OFF
