Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 15:06:27 -0400 I just did the brakes on mine. It was the first time I
ever did any work on this car. I have changed brakes and just about
everything else on other cars but was reluctant to mess with this one. The
front brakes were extremely easy. This is basically a race car that is
street legal. I was able to change the front pads with out any tools. You
just remove the clips, pull out the old pads and slip in the new ones. Its
about as complicated as making toast.
______________
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 07:43:28 -0500 This is close but not quite right. 1st, get the factory service manual and
read it.
General: Unscrew the cap on the brake resv. so it is not sealed and
pressure can escape. Do NOT add fluid until pad have been changed since
putting in new pad which are thicker than the worn ones you remove makes you
push the pistons back on all 4 wheels. This forces brake fluid back into
the resv. and can cause it to overflow. When done top off fluid needed
and tighten cap.
Front brakes. You are only going to be able to slide in/out the old/new
pads if they happen to be exactly the same size. usually you leave the old
pads in and use their steel backing plate and large channel locks to push
the pistons back far enought to get the old pad out and the new ones in.
Do this with old pads in place, depressing one piston at at time can pop
the other one out, requiring removal of the caliper to fix. Mazda has a
special tool for about $20 to make this easier.
Spraying down the calipers & pistons with BrakeClean makes it all easier as
does wearing disposable latex gloves to keep your hands clean. If you have
trouble getting a piston to retract, try opening the bleed valve for that
caliper slightly whild you press on the piston.
________________
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 98 14:13:53 -0500 Most people have trouble with the phillips screw that holds the front rotor
at the hub, it can be a job to get out. I would recommend getting a few
extra ones in case you have to drill it out. It doen't actually hold the
rotor, torquing the wheel lug nuts with the wheel on holds the rotor, the
screw is to hold it in postion while you are mounting and dismounting the
wheel.
You need to get some high temp disk brake caliper grease to grease the upper
and lower bolts that the rear calipers slide on, Pay close attention to
these bolts on the rear brakes, they are marked and are NOT interchangeable.
Get some LARGE channel lock plyers for retracting the front caliper pistons
- it makes the job much easier.
I would not tackle the all 4 wheels at once unless you have another car and
garage space.
________________
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:10:06 -0500 I have been channel lock pliers for several years and they
certainly DO work. I'm NOT saying its easy.
Get BIG ones (open 5-6 inches, handles about 18inches). Do
steps one and two (2 is optional). remove pad on use plyers to
work pistons back and forth on the outside two pistons until you
can get the new pad in. Then do the same on the inside pad.
If they do not want to retract fully, do one at a time, turning
the old pad sideways to and reinserting it to keep one piston
from poping out while working on the other one. use shims, pry
bar, etc to keep piston you have pushed back from coming out
again, Then do other piston, insert new pad and you are done.
Most of the time you do not have to got to this extent and the
pistons retract enought to put in the other pads without lots of
trouble. However sometimes its a bitch, no question. I have
tried using two screwdrivers on opposite side of the piston but
without success.
The factory tool is worthless, do not waste your money.
________________
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:47:58 -0800 (PST) I use a med->small size C clamp with very good success. The problem with
most methods if the pistons are extended very far is the un-even pressure
on them causes them to jam and not want to go in. With the C clamp, it is
directing the force in the correct direction, plus has a large enough base
to cover both sides of the piston.
________________
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:38:48 -0500 Use a manual impact driver. One hit with a good hammer and the screws loosen
right up.
> Get some LARGE channel lock plyers for retracting the front I would respectfully disagree with Sandy. If one applies pressure to the
pistons at two points 180 degrees across from each other they will retract
easily. Simply use two screwdrivers. The trick is to remove only one pad at a
time and to use something to hold one piston from exiting the caliper while you
retract the other.
_________________
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:52:20 -0500 I use an impact screwdriver. The type that you hit with a hammer, and
while it applies downward(sideways in this case) pressure, the phillips
part turns in which ever direction you have it set to. Makes it much
easier.
>Go to NAPA and get a disk brake caliper tool for screwing I use a pair of needle nose pliers for this, and it works great.
_________________
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 14:02:07 -0500 Hand Impact Screwdriver
$4.99 from Harbor Freight...
Stop the rotor from spinning by;
a) Having a helper stand on the brakes
b) Using a long broomstick, breaker bar, whatever between the wheel studs
against the ground to prevent the hub from turning
c) Use an impact screwdriver which doesn't care if the hub spins
_________________
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 98 07:17:44 -0500 Yes, I used needle nose plyer also, and they do work OK. However, a few
slips with them and you are likely to cut up the outer O ring at the piston
and then have to pull the caliper to replace it. Actually, the special
service tool for this is only about $15 from Mazda Comp and makes this
simple job easier and safer.
__________________
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:12:27 -0800 The main problem you will likely have is
the two phillips screws that hold on each front rotor. The first time I
took mine off, at 21k, it took an impact driver to get two of them off
and I had to drill and tap the other two. I would be prepared to replace
all four and use anti-sieze compound when installing the new screws.
______________
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:38:00 -0600 The tough part is removing the two very soft iron
machine Philips head bolts that hold the front disk to the hub. You need an impact
tool, else the metal can deform. I ended up drilling them out and replacing
them with new ones.
_______________
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:56:08 EST If your pressing the piston back on a car with ABS, you might want to make
sure the bleeder is cracked to avoid sending dirty fluid (especially near the
caliper) back towards the ABS unit...It doesn't respond well to it.......Just
my .02....
________________
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 06:01:46 -0400 Examine the rotors for minimum thickness of 20 mm. Then look closely for very
small heat cracks which look like thin little lines in the rotor surface.
Finally, if the rotors are not smooth and you use the brakes aggressively I
doubt whether the rotors will make it through two more events.
________________
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 98 08:40:41 -0500 Machined the rotors for the pads??????????? Big mistake. First, not
necessary - pads will wear in very quickly to rotor. Second, stock rotors
are thin to start with, machining/turning them leave them so thin they tend
to warp - the consensus is if they are bad enought to need machining, you
need to replace them.
_________________
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:13:30 -0500 Note: I wouldn't recommend using brake grease on the front
calipers at all. You need them on the rear caliper bolts
because they are "floating" calipers but the front pins only
serve to keep the pads in place and neither need nor should have
any lub on them. Likewise the backing plates. Any oil or
grease that gets on the pads or rotor will ruin both and distroy
braking effectiveness on that brake.
_______________
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:51:30 -0700 Thanks to everyone who gave me advice on my compound brake
piston-out-too-far and seized problem.
The piston came out so far that the bottom of it was level or near the
identation where the seal goes. When I tried to push the piston back in with
the caliper still on the car, it cocked the piston to the side and the
corner went into the seal indentation. Further efforts to work the piston
back into the chamber just seized the piston worse.
Ways to avoid the situation:
What I did to fix it:
Your step 11) Get a small piece of wood to place over the opposite-side
pistons and position a c-clamp over the wood to hold pistons in place. I
put the c-clamp over the wood in such a way as to make sure that the piston
being extracted would not impact the c-clamp. I jammed a socket between the
c-clamp and the third piston to keep it in its cylinder. With your air
compressor regulated to 30 psi, put a blow nozzle in the brake fluid line
and pull the trigger. The compressed air will force the piston out of its
chamber.
My step 11) I decided to rebuild the first caliper while it was still halved
as I knew this would give me more room to work. I put a piece of wood over
the other piston and c-clamped it in place. I put my thumb over the exposed
brake fluid hole and positioned my knee over the piston being extracted to
keep it from flying through a window. My compressor was still set at 120
psi from the night before when I tried using compressed air to extract the
seized piston. I put the nozzle at the other brake fluid hole and pulled
the trigger. The piston came out of its chamber like a f*cking rocket and
impacted my knee with the force of a thousand mad trampling goats. I jumped
up into the air and grabbed my knee and hopped around in the driveway like a
lunatic. Just then, one of my neighbors drove down the street, probably
laughing. I hopped around clutching my knee for another 2 to 3 minutes.
Your time may vary. I picked up the caliper and now extracted piston and
limped back to the garage to proceed to step 12.
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 15:06:27 -0400 The back (brakes) required a wrench to remove
some bolts and a clamp to depress the piston. One word of caution, when you
depress the pistons open the bleeder valve so any particles that may be in
the lines dont backup and mess up your ABS system. Also remove both wheels
on the axle you are replacing and only disassemble one side at a time so
you can refer to the opposite side if you need to when putting the caliper
back together.
______________
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 07:43:28 -0500 General: Unscrew the cap on the brake resv. so it is not sealed and
pressure can escape. Do NOT add fluid until pad have been changed since
putting in new pad which are thicker than the worn ones you remove makes you
push the pistons back on all 4 wheels. This forces brake fluid back into
the resv. and can cause it to overflow. When done top off fluid needed
and tighten cap.
Rears: Rear piston is designed to be screwed in to retract it (see service
manual for details). You can use Mazda's special tool, a universal tool
from NAPA/etc, or the ends of a large pair of needle nose plyers or wire
cutters. Without pushing the piston in, it can be IMPOSSIBLE to reattach
the emergency brake cable, even if the new pads slide in without doing
anything. You should only have to remove the bottom caliper bolt - you
can then swing it up, use a bungie cord to keep it in place, do your stuff &
put everything back together.
Spraying down the calipers & pistons with BrakeClean makes it all easier as
does wearing disposable latex gloves to keep your hands clean. If you have
trouble getting a piston to retract, try opening the bleed valve for that
caliper slightly whild you press on the piston.
_____________
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 98 14:13:53 -0500 Go to NAPA and get a disk brake caliper tool for screwing in/retracting the
rear brake pistons. About 4 full turns does it for me. You may need more
since your pads are probably worn out.
_____________
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:26:05 -0400 Well, I finished the rear brakes today on my 3rd gen without any
problems. The car stops a lot quicker now. The pads were beyond 50%
worn in the rear.
For anyone attempting this job, a few tips:
1. The bolt(s) that you need to remove to get the caliper off the rotor
to get at the pads are not the ones with the little rubber boots on
them. The service manual picture is deceptive. They are only about
1-1/2 inches long, and are 14 mm. Disconect the brake cable from the
caliper.
2. Once you get the caliper off, (you can either slide it up or take it
off by removing both bolts) the pads slip out if you push them from the
outside towards the center of the caliper. The two little springs that
holds them in place are under the pads as viewed from the open end of
the caliper, and there are two little holes on each pad that the spring
connects to.
3. I used some anti squell spray to hold the shims on the pads, and
after using the special tool to turn the caliper piston back in to the
caliper (3 turns clockwise - open the reservoir, and make sure the level
is not lower or higher than 3/4), I put the new pads in place.
4. It is a little tricky to get the springs in place on the reinstall
due to the fact that you can't see the holes on the pads. I found that
if you mount one of the pads in place while holding the springs in
place, you can get the other pad in its slot after locating the springs
in the respective holes and then pushing it into its slot. After
getting one side in, it took me 5 minutes to do the other side.
5. I didn't have to take the pad clips out at all. The Mazda Factory
Service Manual does not give you any information other than the sequence
of removal and reinstall, except telling you to turn the caliper
clockwise and make sure it aligns up properly.
The front brakes were easier in comparison, but once you have done it
once, it is easy to do again.
________________
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 97 07:58:22 -0500 Original question from: David.Alberti@fisc.com. Sandy's response
below Dave's questions.
>I'm preparing to change the rear brake pads on my >1) Disconnect the rear parking brake cable from the caliper
Remove locking clip and pull on cable to free
it from groove. Pay attention to clip attachment
so you remember which side of the bracket to
put it back on.
>2) Remove the Lock pin (which is the bottom bolt that Yep. It will be tight. Alternately you can takeout the
top pin/bolt and let it pivot down instead.
>3) Pivot the caliper upwards on the Guide pin (which is Get a small bungie cord or something to hold it up while
you are working.
>Am I reading this correctly?
yes
>Does the Guide pin (top caliper bolt) need to be NO
>The manual indicates the Lock pin requires some sort It should have grease on the smooth part of the bolt already.
One side of the caliper slides on these to bolts to apply force
to the rotor a and stop you.
==========================
ADDITIONAL:
Block wheel and start with parking brake off.
Retract caliper piston by using a large pair of
needle none plyers or cutter to screw it in
clockwise. Screw in in complete turn only so
that notch will always be lines up (see
manual). If you do not do this to retract the
piston you will pay hell getting the parking
brake back on, even if the new pad slide
right in without doing it (I spent 30 min
cursing trying this once).
Retorque caliper bolt to 65 ft lbs.
________________
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 21:31:45 -0400 I would like to thank Jon, Trey, and Sandy for their help. They were right on
the money. I feeling REALLY embarrassed. I didn't have the V lined up
correctly. I feel like a dope.
So if anyone has a situation where they believe the rear pads are too thick
remember that the cutouts are to cover the pin in the back of the pad. Try
rotating the piston 90 degrees!
_________________
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 06:01:46 -0400 Examine the rotors for minimum thickness of 20 mm. Then look closely for very
small heat cracks which look like thin little lines in the rotor surface.
Finally, if the rotors are not smooth and you use the brakes aggressively I
doubt whether the rotors will make it through two more events.
________________
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 98 08:40:41 -0500 Machined the rotors for the pads??????????? Big mistake. First, not
necessary - pads will wear in very quickly to rotor. Second, stock rotors
are thin to start with, machining/turning them leave them so thin they tend
to warp - the consensus is if they are bad enought to need machining, you
need to replace them.
From: Brad Cook >Sitting on top of my monitor is my new set of speed bleeders waiting to I put a set on my R1 a few weeks ago, and they work really well.
However, I did snap one in half inside the caliper, so be careful as to how
much you tighten them. If you are anal about having air in you brake lines
and bleed them often (like me) these are invaluable.
I even got great service from the developer of the product who sent
me a replacement bleeder AND later on an upgraded version of the bleeder
valves at no charge. Order at www.speedbleeder.com
_________________
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 97 08:12:15 -0500 Definitely not the easiest way for regular bleeding, but...
1. By a set of Speedbleeders and replace the existing bleed bolt.
2. Use a plastic tube that fits over the end of the bleeder nipple and have it dump into a
rubbermaid or other container that will hold at least a quart.
3. Take cap off the brake res (do not lose or drop down in engine compartment). Use
syphon to get all the old fluid you can out of resv. Fill with fresh fluid.
4. Using standard procedure (caliper farthest from resv 1st & work back),
crack open a Speedbleeder very slightly (about 1/8 0 1/4 rev).
5. Depress brake slowly about 15 times (should be hard to push to floor) and
release it slowly. Refill Resv. Do again. Refil resv.
6. Close bleed on that caliper & go to next one till done.
7. Top off resv & remember to replace & tighten cap.
This process uses almost exactly a full bottle of Motul and is a pretty
complete flush. completely draining the system and refilling will take
about 2 bottles. Total time to do the above with one person (wheels off
the car & car on jack stands & what you need hand) is about 15 minutes at
most.
__________________
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 97 11:42:36 -0500 >From: Bhaskar Manda Internet: (bhaskar@orion.me.uiuc.edu) First, this is a 1 person operation and you do NOT put a vacuum at the
bleeder. The bleeder screws come from Speedbleeder with a thread sealer
that seals the threads and keeps air out. You could do this with the
regular bleeder screws by using teflon tape (very, very carefully so as not
to get any into the hydrolics).
The technique I described (above) can be done anywhere, without any specialized
equipment. This comes in very handy at the track if you forgot or ran out
of time to bleed your brakes before an event. Once I get the car jacked
up, wheels off, etc. I can bleed all 4 corners and run a full bottle of
Motul into the system in 15minutes.
Pressure bleeders usually require a lot of fluid in them and unless you are
running a shop where you do this on a regular basis, you are going to waste
lots of fluid. Once opened, the fluid should go into the brake/clutch
system and any excess discarded.
___________________
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 98 07:19:06 -0500 >From: Michael Avila (m-avila@nwu.edu) Good point - you would have to have an extra person if you have air in your
lines and need to monitor this.
Most people that are bleeding brakes regularly for track events simply want
fresh fluid in the lines. Unless you have a problem, there should be NO
bubbles in the fluid in the first place. If there are you are pressing
down to fast on the brake petal or have loosened the speedbleeder to far and
allowed air to get sucked into the brake lines arround the bleed screw
threads. You should only have to back the bleeder screw about 1/4 turn
from the closed position. Its easy to tell, if you do not open enough you
have to press really hard on the petal to force out fluid, if you get no
resistance at all, you probably opened it to far.
__________________
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 98 13:12:10 -0500 >If I completely replace the brake fluid in my 3rd Gen, how A little less than three. This also involves bleeding the clutch cylinder
since they share the same resv.
_________________
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:08:09 -0500 How To Change the Brake Fluid (and install Speed Bleeders)
You need two people, one to operate the brake pedal and one to open and
close the bleeder and top off the brake fluid tank. Use a proper brake-line
wrench for the bleeders (an 8mm wrench or socket works ok). You will need
about 1 liter of brake fluid for a complete flush. Don't spill brake fluid
on painted surfaces, if you do clean it off immediately.
To do a complete flush, start by sucking all of the old fluid out of the
reservoir with a vacuum pump and then refill it with fresh fluid. Since the
hydraulic clutch shares the reservoir with the brakes you should go ahead
and bleed the clutch too. The clutch nipple is on the driver side of the
clutch housing. You will have to access it from under the car. A good time
to do it is when you're bleeding the left front wheel.
Start at the wheel furthest (in hydraulic-circuit terms) from the
master-cylinder and progress toward the closest. The correct order for the
3rd gen RX-7 is right rear, left rear, right front, left front.
Remove the brake/clutch reservoir cap. Remove the bleed nipple rubber cover
and clean the area around the nipple. .
Installing and Using Speed Bleeders
If you are installing Speed Bleeders (highly recommended) just completely
unscrew the original bleeder nipple and screw in the speed bleeder. You will
feel resistance when the thread sealer starts to screw into the caliper.
Torque the speed bleeder to only 32-40 inch pounds (about 3 foot pounds).
That's like having a one foot long wrench with a 3 pound weight on it (not
much torque). I stripped a speed bleeder on my dirt bike (it didn't hurt the
caliper's threads though) so go easy on them. To use the speed bleeder fit a
piece of clear tubing (so you can see the bubbles and color of the fluid)
over the bleed screw nipple and run the hose into a clear bottle. Unscrew
the Speed Bleeder about a 1/4 turn and go pump the brake/clutch pedal and
keep refilling the reservoir before it goes below the 3/4 mark. You don't
need to know the size of your bleeder nipples when you order speed bleeders,
just tell them the year and model of your car/motorcycle, they know what
fits.
Bleeding Without Speed Bleeders
Fit a piece of clear tubing (so you can see the bubbles and color of the
fluid) over the bleed screw nipple and run the hose into a clear bottle. Ask
your assistant to step on the brake with light pressure. The pedal should
only be moved through it's normal range of movement, not all the way to the
floor.
Open the bleeder screw just enough to get fluid flowing, and before the
fluid stops flowing, close the bleeder. If you don't do it this way you may
suck air into the lines through the bleeder threads which will lead to a
spongy brake pedal feel.
Repeat until clean/clear/bubbleless fluid comes out. Don't let the fluid
tank go below the 3/4 mark or air will be drawn into the system. It would
take a lot of bleeding to get a large amount of air out of the system when
it enters at the reservoir, so be careful.
Move to the next closest wheel until all are done.
Ensure you have a nice firm brake pedal before you take the car off the
jacks. Test the brakes by moving the car slightly and apply the brakes and
then continue to test the brakes as you begin your test drive.
_______________
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:20:04 est The brake reservoir level sensor will keep you from sucking all the brake fluid
out of the reservoir and the clutch line has a little partition too. You have
to disconnect the clutch feed line and suck out that side of the reservoir to
get all of the fluid. Then like you said, just bleed the brakes: right rear,
left rear, left front (and clutch), right front. You need about 1 quart (or
liter) of brake fluid for a total flush. My web site has a how-to for this.
_______________
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:27:23 -0700 It might be because the ABS is on the passenger side. The factory
workshop manual says RR, LR, LF, RF.
It is very easy to change, but watch for the little ball bearing that
will come out when you remove the stock bleeder. Be sure to put the
bearing back in or the clutch won't work. It is just a little steel
ball, like a BB from a BB gun.
That's fine. They don't have to be very tight at all.
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:14:56 -0800 (PST) Difficulty:
Tools needed:
Procedure:
Install time:
Break-in:
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 98 08:49:20 -0500 Consensus on the list is NOT to turn 3rd gen rotors, they are thin to begin
with. If warped, replace them.
If you are only noticing this only at slow, almost stopped speeds I would
just live with it until the rotors are worn enough that they require
replacement. Over-torquing wheel lugs and high speed hard stops to a
standstill with no cool down (ie. hot caliper lock in place and stationary
on rotor) are main reasons for warping.
New rotors can be purchased from Porterfield,
Brake Warehouse and others for about $80/rotor.
___________________
Not that this should be necessary for a regular brake job, but maybe in
case of replacing the master cylinder? --Steve
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:41:25 -0700 It can be very difficult (or impossible) to properly bleed a master
cylinder that is already installed in a car. When I used to work as a
mechanic, we would "bench bleed" master cylinders before installation. Put
the mc in a vise, fill it with fluid, and use a phillips screwdriver to
depress the piston inside the mc. Cover the outlet ports with a shop rag,
and apply light pressure over the ports with your free hand. Plunge the
screwdriver in as far as it will go, several times, until a strong
continuous flow of fluid is coming from all ports. That's all it takes.
Then (re)install the mc in the car, and bleed the brakes as usual. Very
messy but effective!
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 23:21:16 -0700 Howdy,
Here is a helpful little tid bit for you,
_________________
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 20:07:39 -0700 I've run Hawk pads, both Black and Blue, for a while. Many sets of
pads, many sets of rotors. Hawk Blues are the only pad worth running on
the track. Even for occasional track days, Blacks won't last. I've
tried Porterfields, Cool Carbons, basically everything out there. Hawk
Blues are a mile ahead. And lots of fun at twilight when people see the
sparks from your wheel wells!
Here are my suggestions, esp for the Blues.
1) Don't use them on the street. You'll chew up your rotors running
them at street temps. They're designed to work above 600 Fahrenheit.
They're not that abrasive on the track when they can reach proper
operating temps. Change your pads when you swap your tires. Takes a
masx 5 min a wheel after you've done it a couple of times. I use stock
pads for street and autocrossing.
2) When you have your rotors turned, have them do a crosshatch mill on
the surface. Any decent machine shop will know what you mean. Don't
run with shiny rotors.
3) Don't run new pads on new rotors. Either run new pads on old rotors,
or old pads on new rotors. Don't ask why, I can hypothesize with the
best of em, but it just doesn't work running new Blues with new rotors.
You won't get the pad life or braking power with new on new.
4) To break them in, hit the track. You can't get proper temps on the
street. 70mph just isn't enough. And if you're not doing track work,
you don't need Hawk Blues, as you won't be able to get enough heat into
them to get them working properly. You can break them in (on old
rotors, see 3 above) at the start of a track day, and run them the rest
of the day fine. They don't need to go through complete heat cycling to
full cold.
5) Hawks have a temperature-sensitive paint on the backing plates. If
your backing plates turn pink, they're getting too hot. Get some air to
your rotors.
6) I personally think cross-drilled rotors are a waste of money. And
they'll hurt your overall braking perf, as you're reducing the swept
area Stock rotors are fine, buy some 3" flexible aluminum (NOT foil)
dryer hose and a few tie wraps and run the hose from under your front
bumper (use the tow hooks to tie to) to blast air onto the
calipers/pads. When your cross-drilled rotors are gone, replace them
with regular rotors. Or, at most, order some hardened rotors from Mazda
Competition Parts.
So for Sebring, just install the pads before your event (on non-new
rotors) and you'll be fine, and use your first 5 or 10 laps to bed them
in. I don't do anything special to bed them - just a regular warmup lap
then pushing it the next few to get the brakes and tires to their temps,
then balls-out the rest of the day.
__________________
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 16:30:00 -0500 I've always just made a few slow downs (like from 40 to 10) right after
installing new pads, then don't make any extreme stops (if possible) for
a couple of weeks of city driving. Steve Millen recommends making about
10 slow downs (35 to 5) then no emergency or harsh stops for 200 miles.
Some pads if heated up too high before they are cured, will glase up and
be less effective. To remedy this; take the pads out and using wet medium
grade(about 200) sandpaper on a very flat surface; very slightly sand the
pad surface. Then reinstall and go at it again.
_______________
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:57:22 -0400 Have you bedded the pads in properly? That makes a significant difference
in how the brakes feel.
To bed in the pads, find a nice wide-open straight road (empty). Take the
car up to 70mph and stand on the brakes. Repeat about 3 times (until you
experience some fade OR smell the pads starting to burn.) Then STAY OFF
the brakes until the pads cool down. (With a R1/R2, if you can drive
around without using the brakes for a while this will help cool the front
pads a lot). This will help the stopping power of the pads immensely.
The PFS pads feel/perform good, but they still dust a fair amount.
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:38:00 -0600 When installing my Racing Beat stainless lines, the front ones where
hard to mount where they attach to the inner fender because the fitting
was longer than the original. I had to slightly bend the solid brake lines
back a little bit.
__________________
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:06:59 -0700 (PDT) I just installed my Pettit SS brake lines a few weeks ago, and they did not fit perfectly.
The rears were a little tight, but the fronts were much more
difficult, especially the center mounting point which was not the
right shape. The new lines are hex shaped, while the old ones had one
of the corners rounded off. I managed to get the clip on without any
filing.
___________________
A few others said they had problems w/ the Pettit SS lines. --Steve
___________________
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:03:20 -0500 What you need:
8mm wrench (fits bleeder screws), 10mm (fittings), 12mm wrench (banjo bolt),
small torque wrench, pliers to pull the metal clips out, brake bleeding
stuff. This procedure can be referenced on page P-21 of the RX-7 Workshop
Manual.
I got the brake lines from Racing Beat for $130. They didn't fit very well
and one had a manufacturing defect (see below). They were a slight pain in
the butt to install but I know that if I had to do it again I could do it in
1/3 of the time. Hopefully this how-to will make it easier for you. You
might want to replace your brake pads while you're doing this.
Warning:
Don't install brake lines yourself unless you are a very competent mechanic.
A single point failure in the brake system will result in the total loss of
brakes and possible damage/injury/death! A brake shop can install the lines
fairly cheaply. You must use all of the stock mounting points, washers, and
clips.
The front brake lines have a mid brake line attachment point that must be
secured first. The rear lines attach only at the line ends.
Note:
The brake line attachment points have one point of the hex nut ground off.
This requires the hex nut on the brake line to fit into the brake line
brackets in one particular position. Get familiar with this ground off hex
point on your brake lines. It is impossible to install the metal retaining
clips if you don't have the ground off point lined up properly. One of my
Racing Beat front brake lines did not have the point ground off so I
couldn't get it into the bracket (manufacturing defect). I had to use a die
grinder to grind it off and make it fit.
I recommend you start with the rear brakes, they are a little easier. Remove
the wheel. Get some newspaper to soak up the brake fluid that will drip out
of the lines and have some paper towels handy. Loosen the brake line
connections on each end of the stock lines, a 10mm wrench will fit the brake
line fitting and a 12mm will fit the banjo bolt. Pull the two metal clips
that retain the hose ends. Remove the stock lines. Save and re-use the
copper crush washers from the banjo fitting. Start by installing the banjo
fitting and washers to the wheel hub. Torque the banjo bolt to 15-21 foot
pounds. Next fit the brake line's hex nut into the bracket and line up the
ground off hex point with the bracket's matching point. If you don't get the
fit right the brake line will not go through the bracket enough to get the
metal clips back on (but don't put the clips on yet). Get the brake fittings
started (hand tight only) and then put the metal clips on. If you don't get
the lines started first you may not be able to start them once they are held
in position by the metal clips. Don't tighten the brake line fittings before
you get the metal clips on, they will prevent the lines from turning when
you tighten the fittings. I had to pull the metal brake lines lose from the
plastic clips on the fender well to get the brake lines to line up because
my Racing Beat lines were slightly different from stock and they alter the
point where the lines join up. Torque the brake line fittings to 113-190
inch pounds.
Warning:
You must torque the brake line fittings to spec! If you don't you run the
risk of having a fitting come lose and dump all of your brake pressure which
will result in total brake loss! (The parking brake may or may not still
work) Verify that both metal clips are secure, that the fittings are torqued
properly, and that there is absolutely no way that wheel travel will kink or
snag a brake line (see warning above!).
The only thing different on the front brakes is a mid brake line mounting
point and no banjo fitting. You must install the mid-line connector and
metal clip first. If you don't do it first you may have to twist the brake
line to finish the installation (and that is bad). The line ends have
swivels which are easy to line up once the center is secured. The rest of
the installation is the same as the rears. Again, make sure that wheel
travel and steering will not kink or snag a brake line.
Bleed the brakes
thoroughly and ensure you have a nice firm brake pedal before you take the
car off the jack. See the Bleed Brakes how-to.
Test the brakes by moving
the car slightly and apply the brakes and then continue to test the brakes
as you begin your test drive.
From: winterpf (winterpf@mindspring.com) When starting the 929 master cylinder change as described on Ron Robinette's
site, I found a difference between your instructions and what works for the part
I received (a 93, 929 MC from Jeff Haas, same part # as on your excellent
site).
You mention needing a second 929 banjo bolt due to length differences- in
the case of the MC in my hands this is clearly wrong. The rear brake
connector at the MC is not machined for a banjo bolt- it is internally
machined for a FLARE FITTING, unlike the front connector which is machined
for a banjo bolt.
Basically, the install requires fabbing two new brake lines (front and
rear), instead of one (front).
It is easy to confirm externally if your 929 MC was originally machined
for a banjo or flare at any location. Banjo locations are machined flat and
vertical, the outside of flare fitting locations is not a machined flat.
I suspect you may have had to crush the internal flare "cone" to seal your
banjo bolt, effectively using the bolt end as a substitute for flared
tubing. That would explain the high torque.
LIST MEMBERS- not intended as a criticism of Rob's site which has a lot of
good stuff.
For all I know, Mazda has made two different MC's under the same part
number, though I doubt it. Just noting that the site instructions as posted
are wrong for the part number given.
>I went to an Auto X this weekend and had some problems with my brakes. The Date: Mon, 27 Apr 98 08:13:47 -0500 Make sure you have had the factory recall re: brake done. If not do it ASAP.
There is no charge regardless of warranty timeframe.
With loss of VAC & brake power assist, it takes about 400lbs on the pedal to
lock the brakes (read crash city)
__________________
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:38:06 -0400 Has you car had the brake recall done?
The recall just involves replacing the two large vacuum lines that provide
vacuum to the brake booster. Apparently, the original line has a valve
in it that can gum up and keep you from having brake assist. The recall
takes a couple of minutes to do, so you shouldn't have to leave your
car in the hands of a dealership.
There is one large line going from the brake booster to a metal pipe. At the
other end of the metal pipe, another large line connects to the extension
manifold on the passenger's side. You might check these for leaks... but if
you had a leak there your car probably wouldn't idle at all.
_________________
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:51:30 -0008 Sounds like a shortage of vacuum. The power assist is driven/consumes
vacuum. If you are using alot of brakes and the engine is spending
most of its time in a boost state then vacuum is not being
replenished. Check your vacuum control systems for leaks, increase
the size of the vacuum tank or add a electric vacuum generator.
_________________
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:54:27 -0700 Check your brake fluid level.
_________________
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 14:43:29 -0600 One other thing to check (after brake fluid) would be the sensor on the
parking brake handle. If your brake is loose, there's a chance the
acceleration is causing it to move enough that the sensor thinks the hand
brake is pulled. If it's loose, you just have to tighten down the tension
adjustment (assuming your rear brakes are in good shape) to keep the light
from coming on.
________________
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 23:42:32 -0500 (EST) It is possible for alignment to cause this, but I'd be looking at brakes
also. You can also get this if your tire pressures are wrong (simple
things first :} ).
Stuck/damaged caliper, grease or dirt on the brake pads, or one worn out
brake.
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[Copyright Notice]
From: Brian Corin
From: "Linthicum, Sandy"
From: "Linthicum, Sandy"
From: Sandy Linthicum
From: NetBlazer
From: "John Levy"
>caliper pistons - it makes the job much easier.
From: "Nick Riefner"
>in/retracting the rear brake pistons
From: "Brad.Barber" (Brad.Barber@alsformal.com)
From: "Linthicum, Sandy"
From: Spencer Hutchings
From: "Westbrook, Chuck"
From: Mooogmn
From: "John Levy"
From: "Linthicum, Sandy"
From: Sandy Linthicum
From: "Lou Young" (glyoung1@earthlink.net)
Subject: (rx7) [3] Brake Trouble Update
Rear
From: Brian Corin
From: "Linthicum, Sandy"
From: "Linthicum, Sandy"
From: Rich
From: "Linthicum, Sandy"
>3rd gen. and after looking over the shop manual have
>a few questions to members who have done this before. If
>I am inferring from the manual illustration correctly to
>get at the pads I need to:
>
>secures the caliper)
>the top bolt that secures the caliper). The manual
>shows the caliper to be pivoted nearly 180 deg.
>loosened at all? The manual makes no mention of it.
>of lubrication. Suggestions on what should be used to lube
>this?
From: Grant Moyer
From: "John Levy"
From: "Linthicum, Sandy"
Bleeding
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:14:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: (rx7) [gen] RE:speedbleeders
>go in. They seem like a really neat idea and the construction looks to be
>of good quality. Only suggestion would have been a cap to cover the ends
>when not being used
From: "Linthicum, Sandy"
From: "Linthicum, Sandy"
>In response to my post about constructing a pressure bleeder,
>there have been responses suggesting the Speedbleeder bleed valves.
>As I mentioned, the main disadvantage to a two-person or vacuum
>bleeding method is air leaking past the threads of the bleeder
>valves. Reading the Speedbleeder website, I get the impression that
>the valve they sell has to be opened so that fluid goes past the
>seat and into the built-in one-way valve. So air may still leak
>past the threads. Any sealin method you use there would apply
>to regular bleeder valves also. In addition to overcoming these
>disadvantages, a pressure bleeder can be used to install master
>cylinders also, it is cheaper, and applicable to any of your vehicles.
From: "Linthicum, Sandy"
>However, when bleeding the brakes, the idea is to bleed them until
>bubble-free fluid comes out. Without 2 people, how do you know when the
>fluid coming out is actually bubble-free, even with Speedbleeders? Would
>you be running out around the back of the car each time to check with each
>pump, or am I missing something? Might you miss bubbles while you get out
>to check the container? Please forgive my ignorance.
From: "Linthicum, Sandy"
>many pints will I need to use?
From: "Rob Robinette"
From: robinett@dca.net
From: Max Cooper (max@maxcooper.com)
Subject: Re: (rx7) [3] Speedbleeder Install Questions
> "Start at the wheel furthest (in hydraulic circuit terms) from the
> master cylinder and progress toward the closest. The correct order for
> the 3rd gen RX-7 is right rear, left rear, left front, right front."
>
> I thought it was passenger side rear (right rear), driver side rear
> (left rear), passenger side front (right front), and driver side front
> (left front). Since the passenger side is farther than the driver side,
> I thought bleeding was supposed to be done like that. I bled my brakes
> like that today, and not the way described on Rob's site.
> The only thing I didn't get to change was the clutch bleeder valve, as
> time ran out on me and the sun set. Any tips for tackling that clutch
> bleeder valve tomorrow?
> Since I don't have a micro torque wrench (Sears
> had one, but it's minimum was only 25 in/lbs.). I tightened the
> Speedbleeders by feel. As soon as they stopped, I tightened them just a
> hair tighter. Should that be enough to keep them from leaking?
Rotor Replacement
From: Chris Layne (clayne@nervosa.sf.ca.us)
Easy
a. Impact driver with #3 bit (20 $ tool available at Grand Auto or
most auto stores).
b. 14 mm socket.
Do fronts before rears.
Front:
1. Remove tire/wheel assembly from each side.
2. Setup impact driver to turn counter-clockwise. Make sure appropriate
bit is being used, or else you will strip the retaining screws. If you
do, you'll have to drill them out (not a big deal).
3. Use a hammer to apply force to the end of the impact driver as you
twist it counter-clockwise. The retaining screw should come lose with
a few whacks.
4. Remove both retaining screws.
5. Remove lower 14 mm bolt attaching caliper _assembly_ to knuckle.
6. Remove upper 14 mm bolt attaching caliper _assembly_ to knuckle.
(these bolts are closer to the hub than the caliper swivel bolts).
7. Remove caliper assembly from knuckle and rest on lower control arm
(LCA). Do not play with pads or pistons at this time, unless that was
planned before hand.
8. Pull rotor off hub.
9. Place new rotor on hub (make sure to align retaining screw holes).
10. Insert 1 retaining screw into screw hole and tighten down with
moderate force (so that you can remove it later). Do not install the
other screw.
(Because it serves no purpose. One screw works fine, in fact, zero screws
work fine. They don't secure anything, the wheel mounting to the hub
secures the rotor. But the main reason is to keep one in case you need
to use it on the rear rotor to break it free from the hub.)
11. Slide caliper assembly back over rotor.
12. Reinstall upper and lower 14 mm bolts attaching caliper assembly to
knuckle. Tighten bolts to factory specs.
13. Re-install tire/wheel assembly and torque lug-nuts to spec.
Rear:
1. Remove tire/wheel assembly from each side.
2. Remove lower 14 mm bolt attaching caliper _assembly_ to knuckle.
3. Remove upper 14 mm bolt attaching caliper _assembly_ to knuckle.
4. Remove caliper assembly from rear suspension and rest on LCA.
Do not play with pads or pistons at this time, unless that was
planned before hand.
5. Attempt to remove rotor from hub (has no retaining screws). If rotor
is seized to hub, spray WD-40 or other penetrant where the center of
the rotor and hub join. Insert one retaining screw from front rotors
into empty screw hole on rotor and tighten until rotor breaks free
from hub (this screw will push rotor away from hub).
6. Place new rotor on hub.
7. Slide caliper assembly back over rotor.
8. Reinstall upper and lower 14 mm bolts attaching caliper assembly to
knuckle. Tighten bolts to factory specs.
9. Re-install tire/wheel assembly and torque lug-nuts to spec.
15-20 minutes per side, if you are doing just a rotor replacement. Swapping
pads will add more time obviously.
1. Use brakes conservatively for first couple miles to make sure they
actually work.
2. Find open stretch of road and progressively apply more braking
power, until you are at a point where you are seriously using the
brakes (i.e. ABS activation, serious g-forces). At this point, the
rotors should be broken in, and you should feel a difference in
friction takeup time (grabby-ness).
Turning Rotors
From: "McCurdy, Michael"
Brake Pad Bedding
From: "Gregg O'Brien"
"BLACK:
The original Hawke Brake material is for medium and severe duty
asphalt and dirt racing. Optimal operating temperatures range
between 400*-1100*F, with an average coefficient of .49. The
black pad is extremely rotor friendly and runs well against cast
iron and steel rotors.
!!!!!!! * Blue and Black Hawke Brake pads are PRE-BEDDED at the
factory. They are race ready out of the box.
!!!!!!! * To maximize the Blue and Black Hawke Brake pad
effectiveness, make two medium speed stops to assure full pad
contact to the rotor surface."
This is right out of the Hawke Brake Racing Catalog. Also noted
in the text was this item concerning the Blue pads for use on
iron rotors only.
"The blue pad is extremely rotor friendly,long lived,......If
cross drilled rotors are used, pad wear will increase"
One other side note, most manufacturers say not to use new rotors
and new pads together but I found no such statement in the catalog
so you should be safe, IF you follow the manufacturers directions.
For further info contact Hawke Brake at 800-542-0972.
From: Jim Walsh
From: "Westbrook, Chuck"
From: Edward Hahn
Brake Line Replacement
From: "Westbrook, Chuck"
From: Bill Geiger
From: "Rob Robinette" How to Install Brake Lines on a 3rd Gen
Rear Brake Lines
Front Brake Lines
Master Cylinder Replacement
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2000 3:10 PM
Subject: [3] 929 Master Cylinder Install
Brake Troubleshooting
>brake pedal would be rock hard right after I get off the trottle and start
>to apply some brakes. This will only last for a split second and then my
>brake pedal will go down, and the brakes start to work. This only happens
>when I drive the car hard or higher boost. During normal driving everything
>seems to be working fine. I was wondering if anybody has encountered the
>same problem, and if so, how can I fix it?
From: "Linthicum, Sandy" (linthias@sandy-ntws.usps.gov)
From: David Disney (disney7@icx.net)
> I finally got the engine back in my 94 Base last weekend (thanks Sandy
> L) and have finally got it broken in. On the way home from work today, i
> was doing a little PMC fine tuning, i turn in at the end of my road (7
> mile long straight away in the backwoods of NC)....i row through the
> gears, wind it out in 4th...Look, there's my house..better slow down
> now..NO BRAKES..NONE AT ALL!!!!! The pedal was firm as hell, almost like
> it was stuck, and had no effect on slowing down. I had to downshift and
> use the e-brake to stop it. I drove around in the driveway afterwards and
> they worked fine.
From: "Phil Postmus" (ppostmus@pacbell.net)
From: "Brian Schiller" (bschillr@gte.net)
>When accelerating past 4K rpms, (to burn out the engine carbons) shifting
>through the gears quickly, my emergency dash emergency brake indicator
>comes on. I check that the emergency brake is not up, and it isn't.
>It goes off in a few minutes. What causes this? Can it be damaging?
From: Travis Boyle (rx7_r1@ix.netcom.com)
From: William T Wilson (fluffy@snurgle.org)
> I hope you can help with this question. What would cause a car (in
> this case an 89 GXL) to pull to the left under hard braking? Would
> alignment issue as I suspect. If it were the brakes, what would cause
> one caliper to exert more force than another? Thanks in advance.